Category: Geeks r Us
I am thinking of getting a new laptop. I'd like to try the Mac with VoiceOver, but it looks so very complicated from the manual online in comparison to JAWS. I've tried a Mac and have had very limited ability to intuitively learn the software so far. In many ways, the virtual layout of things seems to make much more sense to me, as opposed to tabular screen layouts on which VO seems to place emphasis. I love VO on the iPhone and found it quite easy to learn, but it doesn't seem nearly so easy on the Mac, at least in my initial experience. Thoughts?
I think the mac. is a good choice.. it takes time to llearn. but if you are willing to learn the I phone. you can learn the mac. computer. as well.good luck.
i've been shifting mac myself over the last year or so and the first thing you must do is not compare it to windows, in any form. they are completely different things. the way voiceover is showing you stuff is how a sighted user sees it so it's going to be different than how jaws or other windows screen readers render it. I'd stuggest mac if you're willing to learn and won't hold your views on how windows does thing as that will make it really hard for you. Also consider though, are there mac versions of programs you use?
I am not sure if these concerns are realistic, but the thought of deciding dom or group for Web pages, and the idea of switching and keeping track of three cursors, gives me a bit of concern. As I am using Windows at work, and will be continuing to do so, I am leaning towards Windows. I do wish the Apple VO manual did a better job of familiarizing the newbie with VO and MAC OS at the same time though.
there are more than one curssor yes, but they usually follow each other if you have it set to do so. the defaults usually work enough for people, and if you decide you wanted to try other things you can switch the setting quickly. you can also keep windows near on a mac if you need it, like a virtual machine
Jawshas 3 cursors too though, just saying.
Windows is going through a big reorganizing phase. The mirror drivers, that have been kept around since Windows 7, will disappear in Windows 8, and this will cause major head aches for the screen reader manufacturers, especially Jaws and Window Eyes, that have built their functionality around the miror drivers. It's not essentially their fault, as they started providing screen reading when the only way to do it was to rely on said drivers, but they have not been fast enough keeping up with the times.
All that being said.
If you have a Jas license, Windows laptops are cheaper. Buy.com had a 12-inch Acer with an I3 processor, Windows 7 64-bit, 2gb ram etc for $449.
If you do code development or accessible document development, you still need Windows. There has been little news yet about accessibility of code editors on the Mac, and I know iWorks and Office or Mac do not yet, for instance, export accessible/tagged PDFs, so you still need Windows to produce accessible materials. Most Assistive software still only runs on Windows.
I am curious to try the new touchpad on Apple computers that is supposed to make Lion work a bit like the iPone.
I think Apple is getting there, and it will take time to port the software to that platform, but, personally, I'm going to wait another year or so to see how Apple's commitment to accessibility develops now that Steve Jobs is gone and Microsoft must be stepping up its game with Windows accessibility.
Apple owns the portable market though, the iPhone is brilliant, and I will get an Apple laptop some day, that's for sure.
the nice thing with apple computers is you can have both OS's if you choose too, mac for standard use and windows for when you need it via vm or bootcamp. vm's are good as they can be run as the same time as your main OS while bootcamp gives windows full access to the hardwear on the mac
I would go with the mac. And for help, just sstart the voice over tutorial (control+option+command+function+f8) or space when first starting the screenreader. There's a way to do it from the startup wizzard or whatever it is that you go through first.
Do those with boot camp.
How does this work when you want to choose which O.S. to start.
You turn on the computer, then how do you get access to the selection?
Do you choose in the BIOS, and can you use VO, Jaws or NVDA to start as a service and guide you though the choice, or do you have to just remembe to push arrow down and then enter to choose Windows (ofr instance).
If this is perfectly accessible and easy to do, you'd get the best of both worlds, which is really cool.
macs don't have a bios like windows does. to switch between bootable devices you hold the options key at startup then left or right arrow to your choice. there's no speech durring this however. if you just allow it to boot what ever you have set as your startup disc will boot be it mac or windows which you can set in system preferences or with the bootcamp control panel in windows.
Cool, so is there a page with dual boot instructions or page with dual boot up Mac and Assistive Technology (someone who is running the set up successfully)?
I am sure lots of people do, but this sounds like an interesting option, but rather pricy, so I want to make sure I am aware of the possibilities and possible snags before I even think more about it, lol.
-B
bootcamp is free, it's part of your mac. fusion does cost and it's not exactly cheap.
I agree with post 6. Apple owns the portable market, miles ahead of any other devices out there. It will be interesting to see how the accessibility landscape unfolds in terms of computers. I've experimented with my wife's Mac to try to get a feel of the landscape. I am not sure if VO is quite there yet and, as I'll probably need to do some work on this machine, I will probably be going with a Windows laptop for now.
it's your choice to go that route, but wondering, how do you think vo isn't there yet. maybe i can suggest stuff you missed or simply don't know
Just one question. Not saying this can't be done but I didn't see it in any of the command structures I looked at:
Say we're in iWork. Someone sends me a document and asks me to pay particular attention to the text in yellow, or in larger font, etc. Can VO readily pick this up?
Rat, what is fusion?
I was just asking how easy/hard it was to install Windows 7 and then Jaws/NVDA on a typical Apple MacBook Pro. Is t just a matter of inserting CDs and starting up, or do I have to mess around with config files and drivers and all sorts of hooplah to get things to work.
i believe voiceover can see colors, i have't really worked with it much though. as for installing stuff when in windows, the mac is running windows cleanly at the point if using bootcamp, it's a mac computer running windows basically is all it is.
if you're actually planning on doing work on the mac instead of sitting at home or doing audio production, go for windows, mac and productivity are not friends, which anyone who has tried to use it in a business environment will tell you. Job Access with Speech is Job Access with Speech for a very good reason, because it does that. IWork has problems with spell checking, tables, seeing fonts and colours at a specific place, on the web or in pdf files selecting larger areas of text is a chore best left alone...all these things add up to time. Just get windows and save yourself the headache.
Post 18, amen. That was my strong suspicion, based on reading the documentation and experimenting with a mac. Thanks for the opinion.
I'll sadly have to admit that yes, if your going to use office apps go windows. otherwise the Mac can fill much of your computeing needs. I use PC's at work and the mac at home and have taught both. I believe there are strong reasons for both and that a machine or OS should be considered on it's merrits and what it can do for the user.
Is it still true that there is Mac application to read tagged PDF files? Last time I checkd there was nothing I could do with them, neither reading nor filling in tagged PDF forms.
I find this extremely limiting. Try Excel (or equivalent), add a formula, comment in the cell, try to work with a spreadsheet with controls/buttons on it, last time I tried none of these things were possible.
I hope Apple will take the next step into productivity apps. The one criticism that has been levelled at them is that they are not going for productivity and corporate marektting, but rather to those who want to play with their devices. Perhaps it is a smart strategy, I mean, look at the profits they're making. But users need to be aware of this when they make their purchasing dcissions.
I think the mac. is the way. to go!
sMile.
If I were to get a mac, a vertual machine would bee created for tasks that still can not bee done in the MAC OS.
I've chosen Windows 7 and am happy with it so far. I still cling to my iPhone and iTunes though!
i do the balance with mac and a vm where needed but that's getting less and less now. mainly mudding is the reason i need windows now as there's not a full blown mud client that voiceover supports yet
I just got a macbook pro, and so far am having a love-hate relationship with it, probably because I'm still trying to get used to it. I love the fact that it's not so cluttered up with a ton of ikons and the like on my desktop as opposed to windows, which makes the startup/shutdown time so much faster, but setting up my e-mail has been a nightmare for me.
I've done a ton of google searches on how to change my settings from imap to pop3, but can't find the option under my preferences to select "pop3," and it just wants to automaticly configure the acount for me instead of letting me do it from scratch. Any advice here? I've joined the macvisionaries list on google groups, and they haven't been able to help either, and I'm really frustrated here.
if you want too you can pm me, we can see about setting up a time to somehow discuss any mac issues you may have, and i might be able to help you sort them out.
i'm a big fan. of the mac. yay:
If I bought myself a machine brand new, it would be a Mac of some sort, plus VMWare Fusion plus Windows 7 plus Office and of course my code editor(s) of choice.
Reason? I can manage it all myself. You can but at 40 I'm gettin tired of having to do a lot blind in Windows before you can put any reader at all on it, and yes I have done answer files, etc., even commercially.
Windows 8 may change that for me, if its reader will even run off its CD, but for now that is what I would do.
Just an FYI, Mac and employment have never been the best of friends as anyone will tell you who had to try and put a System 7 or System 8 mac on a real-world network.
My wife as a writer would be good enough on a mac, with OpenOffice or iWork. I did not know about the time sink with productivity applications and the VoiceOver. As usual, Mac gets a free pass because they're boutique, I guess. Except I am not as wealthy or sponsored as some people, and so productivity matters.
The Screenless Switchers are a couple kids my nieces' age goofing around, doubtless having people somewhere between my age and Blbobby's paying for their education, room and board.
But a Macbook or iMac would mean I could manage my own OS, back up my Windows image, not run a ghost program blind, not have to write down sequences of keystrokes and listen for clicks, so ironically, when something went wrong it would equate to much greater productivity. The trackpad would probably be nice for some things like marine weather charts for the Coast Guard, and their interacting paradigm, at least in principle, seems a sound way to do things.
I looked for the article online just now and couldn't find it, but read one once that confirmed my suspicions: an apple product manager, or designer, I'm not sure which, claiming the work environment was not their priority because in their view blind people don't work.
That about sums things up right there, I imagine.
And if that ever changed, you could ditch the virtual environment and just use the main OS for those tasks, a process that would no doubt happen gradually one app or task at a time.
Mac and linux people tend to forget that Windows made its niche in enterprise, not stability or some of the other things claimed by either.
On the same vein, when I put together a micronode for my amateur radio out here, it would be Linux, probably a version the new kids wouldn't like too much, but lightweight and strong enough to manage weather spotter software as well as micronode and other amateur apps. But it would probably never be as fully production-ready as a Windows machine for the work environment.
Prove me wrong on any and all counts o mac kiddies, let's see the demos being people in a production environment doing any number of tasks millions across America do every single day on a Windows PC. Not because they feel like it, but because they have to earn a living.
I know many who have macs at home, or in specific secure environments, and Windows everywhere else, or a Mac piece of hardware with a Windows virtual machine, set to be isolated from the underlying file system.